war is war media! GET USE TO IT!

[blak]

im so pissed off at all of these anti war peoples in America!!!!
I know how people hate their family dieing in and all, and hate the iraq war due to is an "oil war".

yet when will my "good old USA" figure out that in war people DIE?

war is war, and it dont end in 24 hours like alot of people think it does...it last for years, decades ,and like some wars...a century (hundred years war)

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

They are aware of the fact people dies. The point is the reason for the killing which isn't a good one for many people.

[Guardian]

I know how you feel blak. Lots of people are just idiots. I don't like people dieing, but I think I see what it is to have people die like that. Horrible. But these same people are the people who laugh at watching videos of WWII movies were people get blown up.

[HiddenShadow]

yeah it pisses me off too, and yeah lots of people are idiots. They know little what happeneds when u remove the troops, they thinks its easy to just pull them out and all the killing will stop, wrong!

Just plain stupidity and complaining.

[DavidUpton]

My pet hate is when people say that if no country had an army then there would be no war.

Oh how ignorant people are...

[icecoldbeerer]

Schrem nailed it. They don't like the war, and therefore are angered when people die in it. They believe it's a waste of life since they don't support the reasons for going to war. They know people will die, but just aren't satisfied with why they are dying.

[CBowling]

To call people ignorant and idiots based on your own beliefs is not only a closed minded approach to their way of thinking, but also an ironic one due to the fact it shows ignorance.

The people who dislike this particular war are upset it with, as has been stated earlier, the fact that soldiers are dying for a reason and cause they do not believe in. If we stayed in Afghanistan then most people probably wouldn't be upset.

Now granted, there are always very pacifistic individuals out there, but they have right to be that way in our country. Pacifism is not a bad thing, and I can see where people come from in it, but it does not always work.

Neither does the idea of being a war hawk, and getting preemptive strikes on those we believe may attack us. But again, people have the right to believe what they wish to believe.

In the end, to call people ignorant and idiotic because of their view of this war is really showing your own ignorance and closed-mindedness. Please try to think outside of your own patriotic fervor and look in to what the families of those that go over there go through.

My own father is in the military. He is currently a Commander in the Navy( rank of O5). He was deployed with Fleet Hospital Three, which was one of the first fleet hospitals in Iraq and was around during the heaviest fighting. I remember wondering if my dad would come home, and I remember thinking that he was going to miss my 13th birthday, and possibly every other one for the rest of my life.

I know my father saw many things that truly devastated him over there. He still has nightmares and he still has demons inside him that seem to haunt him. When asked if he believed that him going over there was right or wrong, he would only say, "I do my duty, and I try to do it right. If I go over there, I just want to try and bring a little bit of good out of it"

Which he did, in my opinion. He was one of the chief medical staffs of the hospital and did help to save many lives whether they were Iraqi civilian, enemy, or friendlies. He treated them and made friends and talked with them. There is even a picture he has of him playing guitar and singing and a one legged Iraqi soldier jumping around smiling and laughing.

So he looked at the bright side and looked at what he could do to bring good to many of the people in this war. But at the same time, he suffered mentally from it and has a lot of bad memories that will forever be with him.

So, since I still do not agree fully to why we went over to Iraq I do not think he necessarily deserved to have all these things happen to him. But, they have and I deal with it. I still support the troops, but I do not support the war due to my own logical analysis of the reasons we went(which could very well be flawed).

Anyway, I digress. Sorry for the large post, and for the tangent about my father. I just hope you learn to open your mind a little and try to see things from a different side.


Historical Note: The Hundred Years War was not a war that lasted 100 years. It was a series of wars and conflicts that made up the period of 116 years, with some times of peace in between. It is mainly given the title it has due to the fact that many of these wars focused on the same goals and featured the same contenders.

Just thought I'd clear that up ;-)

[Baracca Chewbama]

im so pissed off at all of these anti war peoples in America!!!!
yet when will my "good old USA" figure out that in war people DIE?


I'm so pissed off at all of these pro war peoples in America!!! yet when will my "good old USA" figure out that bombs are not an acceptable response to situations that do not involve an imminent threat of attack?

[DavidUpton]

I'm so pissed off at all of these pro war peoples in America!!! yet when will my "good old USA" figure out that bombs are not an acceptable response to situations that do not involve an imminent threat of attack?

Funny, considering that your entire country was founded by a war that did not involve a threat of attack.

[Baracca Chewbama]

Funny, considering that your entire country was founded by a war that did not involve a threat of attack.

Your grasp of American history is a bit sketchy, DavidUpton. :scholar:

[Guardian]

I'm not made about anti war people or pro war people. I agree with CBowling. What makes me made are people who watch the news and then believe that they alone are right and that we are wrong. The people that think they know everything or believe everything. I defiantly just despise the people who disrespect our troops because of the war they are fighting. Or any country's troops, or any one honorable in any job. The people that run there mouths with out really knowing anything, is what makes me mad.

"I'm so pissed off at all of these pro war peoples in America!!! yet when will my "good old USA" figure out that bombs are not an acceptable response to situations that do not involve an imminent threat of attack?"

Old America is what time period? Remember America did not want to get involved in WWI or WWII and then were criticized for it. Now it is the opposite situation, In my opinion.

But we should not argue about our opinions on here. Because we are all entitled to our opinion. No matter were you are from.

[napalmi]

yeah it pisses me off too, and yeah lots of people are idiots. They know little what happeneds when u remove the troops, they thinks its easy to just pull them out and all the killing will stop, wrong!

Just plain stupidity and complaining.

I don't like how USA thinks it's a world police. Meddling with every country. Especially USA should withdraw all their troops if they really want to solve other peoples problems. Sure, all the killing won't stop, but it sure won't if USA is there striving for world domination. Every country has it's problems, and they should work them out themselves.

Luckily, now that Bush is out of the frame, a small glimmer of light is visible at the end of a dark tunnel.

[Appleskates]

My views on the two wars are this:

1. On Afghanistan
It was, overall, a justified war in reaction to 9/11.
2. Iraq
Not the right battlefield, and I was against it, but if you start a war, you should have the fortitude to finish it, not just cop out. These same protesters are the ones who protested Vietnam, and now laugh at it as some sort of comedic skit in America's history. They use it as fodder for Cold War blooper reels, and the media mocks and stereotypes 'Nam veterans as crazies and traumatized buffoons. It is despicable. They seem to hate victory more than anything. Again, let me say, I was against the Iraq war (it's an occupation, now), but we should finish what we started. I wasn't so hot on Vietnam, either, but we were there, and should have fought to win, not fight to have our troops killed like so many people thought was appropriate.
I don't mean to stereotype all protesters, and I know there are a good number of you who agree with me in that Iraq was not the place to fight, but this issue is one which I honestly can not understand- how they want to see the wars end, but not in victory- in compromise, defeat. How can you call yourself an American and not want victory for your nation?
If you enter a war, you should enter it to crush your enemy and attain victory, not to try and just "hang out" for a while, then leave with your tail between your legs.

One of my favorite quotes on the subject came from Senator George Norris about World War 1: "I am bitterly opposed to my country entering the war, but if, notwithstanding my opposition, we do enter it, all of my energy and all of my power will be behind our flag in carrying it on to victory."

[Baracca Chewbama]

I respectfully disagree with your opinion appleskates. We aren't fighting in either Afghanistan or Iraq (or Vietnam) to "crush the enemy." The objective in all 3 wars was to tear down a nation we don't like, and build a new nation which is more appealing to us. Some people are opposed to nation-building on principle, and this principled opposition isn't going to change whether "we are there" or not. In fact, that's the definition of "principled" - an opinion that doesn't shift wherever the wind blows: "I'm against the war, but the war already started, so OOPS! now I'm pro-war!"

Secondly, Vietnam was a (tragic) comedic skit in Americas history. There was even less reason to attack Vietnam than there was to attack Iraq.

[DavidUpton]

Baracca, it's not about shifting opinion, it's about doing what is best for the invaded country.

Let's jump back a year. What would have happened if all security forces in Iraq had pulled out just because of the say-so of anti-war protestors. Then what? What would happen to Iraq then?

The perfect example is Somalia. I don't think I need to say any more.

In my opinion, anti-war protestors don't really care about the people in Iraq or Afghanistan. If they did, they would say "no, we don't support the war, but the job needs to be finished". Instead, they just seem to have a permanent chip on their shoulder with the military/government.

£20 says that if the security forces did pull out, all hell would break lose and people would blame the government for it.

[Baracca Chewbama]

Why so selective with your timing, DavidUpton? If the anti-war bloc gets to make policy, why not go all the way back to 2003 and ask what would have happened then? Or, shit, even after the invasion - what if the CPA had immediately ceded authority to the locals in 2004-2005 before the insurgency started, instead of tearing down all of the structures of Iraqi society (financial system, judiciary, constitution, surrendered army) in order to create a friendly nation from the ground up?

[DavidUpton]

Because things generally go tits-up when that happens. If we had just gone in and then pulled out, extremists and terrorists would have easily been able to take control. We need only look back at history to see this is the case. WWI resulted in two dictatorships being established, and after WWII the Allies maintained control over Germany to prevent such a thing happening again.

Speaking of which, I find it funny that people criticise the occupation of Iraq, but never the occupation of Germany.

[Baracca Chewbama]

What I find funny is when people compare Iraq to World War II as if they are making some kind of point. :mickey:

[DavidUpton]

Because the occupation of a country post-invasion 64 years ago is so very different to the occupation of a country post-invasion now, isn't it?

Besides, I wasn't comparing Iraq to WWII was I? I was comparing it to Germany post-WWII.

[Baracca Chewbama]

Do I really have to spell out the differences between post-WWII Germany and post-Operation-Iraqi-Liberation Iraq? Really?

[Onearmy]

Do I really have to spell out the differences between post-WWII Germany and post-Operation-Iraqi-Liberation Iraq? Really?

No, they have a few differences, but its not totally different when you look at it like that.

[HiddenShadow]

I don't like how USA thinks it's a world police.




In this day and age theres always a police group. wether it be parents policing there kids, police policing there city, ect ect. USA happened to be the greater nation at the time, soo it sent troops if it wasent america it wouldve probably been some1 else. No police = No control = chaos.

If they hadent done anything, everyone would be bitchin about how useless they were, and for all we know there would be alot more bombs going off.


And Davidupton is exactly right. America maintained control of germany, America maintains control of the middle east to avoid chaos.

[DavidUpton]

Do I really have to spell out the differences between post-WWII Germany and post-Operation-Iraqi-Liberation Iraq? Really?

Yes please, because I would love to see how post-war occupation in one country differs from post-war occupation in another.

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

I like to add that I got serious information about the war. Let's say the reasons aren't that far away of the believes of many people.






Money and fame.

[HiddenShadow]

but there wasting money with the war? soo why would it be about money?

[napalmi]

In this day and age theres always a police group. wether it be parents policing there kids, police policing there city, ect ect. USA happened to be the greater nation at the time, soo it sent troops if it wasent america it wouldve probably been some1 else. No police = No control = chaos.

If they hadent done anything, everyone would be bitchin about how useless they were, and for all we know there would be alot more bombs going off.


And Davidupton is exactly right. America maintained control of germany, America maintains control of the middle east to avoid chaos.

My point wasn't that nobody should be the police, my point was that if someone wants to be the police, they shouldn't use it as an excuse to invade a country with "problems" and exploit it's resources and kill people who supposedly are "terrorists" who, in fact, are just ordinary people trying to defend their country.

Quite like what Soviets did in WWII when they invaded Finland. Although they didn't succeed invading our country, in their eyes we Finns were murderous and rage-minded barbarics who eat rape for dinner. But in reality Finns were just simple farmers and hunters who got sick of 'Big Brother' bossing around.

Oh and I don't hate America, if some of you thinks that way of me. I've been to USA couple of times and the people there are fun and I'd like to go there again. It's just the massive ego of their goverment I don't like.

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

but there wasting money with the war? soo why would it be about money?

Indeed, but think about the meaning of the middle east to the western nations.
I don't think I have to explain further since many of you and others think the same way.

[DavidUpton]

My point wasn't that nobody should be the police, my point was that if someone wants to be the police, they shouldn't use it as an excuse to invade a country with "problems" and exploit it's resources and kill people who supposedly are "terrorists" who, in fact, are just ordinary people trying to defend their country.

Quite like what Soviets did in WWII when they invaded Finland. Although they didn't succeed invading our country, in their eyes we Finns were murderous and rage-minded barbarics who eat rape for dinner. But in reality Finns were just simple farmers and hunters who got sick of 'Big Brother' bossing around.

Oh and I don't hate America, if some of you thinks that way of me. I've been to USA couple of times and the people there are fun and I'd like to go there again. It's just the massive ego of their goverment I don't like.

The thing is though, while I don't disagree with you entirely, Iraq didn't exactly have a clean reputation to start with...

[D.O.A]

The thing is though, while I don't disagree with you entirely, Iraq didn't exactly have a clean reputation to start with...

And why was that....maybe because the West helped Saddam in the past.

We in the west should not try and imposs our beliefs on the rest of the world:sleeping2:

[Sgt So and So]

And why was that....maybe because the West helped Saddam in the past.

We in the west should not try and imposs our beliefs on the rest of the world:sleeping2:

Except for the fact that Saddam murdered a good 5000 ethnic Kurds with chemical weapons in the 80s?

Naw, he was a cool guy.

[Onearmy]

Except for the fact that Saddam murdered a good 5000 ethnic Kurds with chemical weapons in the 80s?

Naw, he was a cool guy.


Yeah, he was so cool we hanged him. :p

[D.O.A]

Or the 1 millon who were killed in the iran/iraq war started by Saddam and backed by the west.

It can shocking if you look at the cause and effect of western countries over sea policies.

[Sgt So and So]

Yeah, he was so cool we hanged him. :p

You say it like we brought him to Guantanamo and did it ourselves.

He was tried, convicted, sentenced, and hung by the Iraqi court system; he was only brought in by the US.

[Onearmy]

You say it like we brought him to Guantanamo and did it ourselves.

He was tried, convicted, sentenced, and hung by the Iraqi court system; he was only brought in by the US.

Really? :surprised:

Thats not what my local news stations said... Damned news, can't listen to any of that crap anymore.

[Sgt So and So]

Warning: graphic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45NiNeGttSY

[Jtb0201]

anyone see the reaction that some people have to our soldiers here in britain? There was some demonstration by some extremist muslims during either a homecoming parade or the leaving one, which if the situation were reversed would've been scorned upon for months. I feel that people don't appreciate what soldiers do for us, even if the current conflicts are not good examples of how we directly are favored. What i mean is, that the soldiers need to be cut some slack.

[Roby]

The whole chaos prevention excuse for the start of a war is bullshit, if Western governments gave a damn about chaos there would be alot more troops in Africa.

[DavidUpton]

The whole chaos prevention excuse for the start of a war is bullshit, if Western governments gave a damn about chaos there would be alot more troops in Africa.

And this is why I get exasperated with people...

[|Crimson|]

And this is why I get exhasperated with people...

Why?

[DavidUpton]

Because, on the one hand, people like Roby complain that we aren't in Africa sorting out problems there, but at the same time should we even think of intervening then a good 60% (at least) of the populous would be in an uproar.

In other words, you can't complain about us being in Iraq and then complain about us not being in Africa.

[Sgt So and So]

Africa in its current state is a lost cause. Roby, take a look back just 15 years ago- I know it's a stretch, but try it- and you'll find Black Hawk Down, one of the most embarassing defeats in US military history, in Mogadishu, Somalia. I don't know how many ways I can say it: Africa is effed up the a. What with religious extremism, unchecked disease, rampant political corruption causing social unbalance, mercenary interests, raw materials drawing attention from first-world corporations willing to do anything to get what they want, and our own cultures' religions (I'm lookin' at you, Popey) disapproving of condom usage and trying to teach their beliefs over actually trying to help, I don't think there is damn thing you can do about Africa unless the entire world is behind the effort.

/rant

[Yono]

Sad...but true. But it isnt like that in ALL Africa, there are some area's that are ok......
But really the only thing keeping Africa alive is tourism.

[CBowling]

I recommend that everyone here reads a book called Who Hates Whom by Bob Harris.

It covers all modern day conflicts. The book itself was released late 2007 and it has updates on some of those conflicts as late as that.

But he does a good job showing the history of many nations and why that causes conflicts today. He writes it in a sort of satirical style of comedy, but he did do his research on a great deal of it.

I think you all would like it. In all the conflicts he portrays generally both sides on equal terms and I also think everyone would get a giggle out of his writing.

Just my suggestion haha, would help learn some understand a bit about the situation in the Middle East and Africa.