Do you agree with the War in Iraq?

[2ltben]

The UN hasnt worked and never will ... it didnt sort Iraq out, it hasnt sorted any other war out.... (probably minus Korea).
That's because the UN isn't there to stop war, nor has that ever been its purpose. The UN exists to prevent it. There was one very large war that lasted half a century and ended without fighting simply because the UN was there to provide diplomatic channels. That was called the Cold War.

And enigma, espionage was the reaction to the UN. Open war simply can't happen anymore, so it all comes down to a series of coups, proxy wars, and police actions. Since the UN has been established, the most horrible weapons ever known to human life were mass produced, and yet in the UN's existence, not one was ever used. That's a damn good record by anyone's standards.

[enigma]

The UN didnt stop the cold war heating up, two vast Superblocks armed with nuclear weapons (up to at least 40 000 in the 80s i believe) did .... Mutually assured destruction...

That is why the proxy wars have been fought...


That's because the UN isn't there to stop war, nor has that ever been its purpose. The UN exists to prevent it.
erm ... 160+ wars on ...


Since the UN has been established, the most horrible weapons ever known to human life were mass produced, and yet in the UN's existence, not one was ever used. That's a damn good record by anyone's standards.

Well by that logic, i was born in 86 ... the Cold War ended a few years later therefore i ended the Cold War... and ive never recieved a penny of the Yanks or Russians for doing that ... the gits!


not one was ever used.

Techically....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Worldwide_nuclear_testing.png

According to other sources, over 2000 bombs have been detonated since 1945. Iirc thats why they salvage certain metals from wrecks under water since the rest of it is contaminated by the nuclear radiation.



Just thought i'd let that one sink in first... :D

:D



Btw, you simplify the reasons of mentioned wars
There is never any complex reason for why they are fought, they boil down to several reasons ... usally at least 2 sometimes all:

1 - Power - extending ones own control i.e incorparating new lands and people etc
2 - Religion has always been a big one. Although now adays you can also add in ideology.
3 - Money/Economy ... increase you countries or personnel wealth or to gain access to new raw materials (or even in the most primal form - any material ... i.e. ug ug he got fire ug ug *smack over the head with club for the camp fire*.


Humanity is crossing a very dangerous threshold, if they finally neglect international law..
We have been fighting wars since the dawn of man ... its actually a good way of keeping the worlds population in check when you look at it at a really messed up point of view.

Until someone ... prehaps the Un starts enforcing these international laws ... that doesnt just mean Iraq, that means places like Coloumbia, Burma (dont recall if there crap is still ongoing or has been sorted out) etc get sorted out and they start preventing people from attacking other countries (i.e. the current world situation) there law is worthless in some respects.

I recently wrote to the government wondering why certain situations (a civil matter) broke the laws set down by the UN in there charter of human rights, why it broke our own countries laws, european laws and what there opinion on this was... they bogged me off to another department who then bogged me off again telling if i have a complait forward it to the correct people.

[|:XAS:| Bravo]

OK before anyone gets started with "the War in Iraq is about oil" then you can shove a sock in it, this conspiracy theory has already been settled and is now lying 6 feet under. Use the "search" function on the forums you damn hobos!

Fun fact about the UN: They're peace keepers.

Fun fact about the world: No peace means no peace keepers.

Fun fact about the military: They're peacemakers.

Fun fact from Aristotle: We make war that we may live in peace.

[Corporate Ignorance]

The problem is that lots of valuable points in this discussion are simply lost and overlooked because when one side says "Orcs" the other says "Elves", if you take my meaning.:) Total misunderstanding of the whole poin. I urge everyone to read this WHOLE thread from very beginning.

Bravo, if you look at this very thread, there are no coherent objections to this "conspiracy theory"......)))As far as I'm concerned, I can again call in my three reasons from previous posts...Noone has managed to put in any objections. Not just because I'm so freakin' clever. Just because those facts are undeniable and covered in the official media and documents. Peacemakers you say? It's just words. In reality, it's far worse. Slaughtered babies with burnt heads and without limbs- I shudder at the very thought of such "peace"- I saw those pictures. And I know the official statistic of death. And the state of things in Iraq. It's devastated. And it was very poor during "sanctions" period, but now it's FAR worse.
And btw,(I know Enigma would be glad that I again mentioned it.:)) why Americans don't help Darfur or Eastern Congo- there, evil dictators are growing on trees and there is a real slaughter going on there at the very moment. The worst massacre after WW2.

Anyway, this talk seem a litte bit pointless.

2enigma
Third world war will slaughter humanity. Our times are unqiue. We have deadly weapons. But human morality is the same- Anicent Romans can't destroy the world, but we can- and we are no better(or even worse) then Anicent Romans...

[2ltben]

We have a clearly laid path for the future. That future is space, and in order to do so we need world government. We have a world economy, we have world communication, we're know what the world languages are going to be(English, and probably China depending on how the next few decades go), and ever since the League of Nations and the Kellogg-Brand Pact have we been trying for global diplomacy to lead to global peace and peaceful global coexistence. Say what you will, but in a couple hundred years at most there will be no reason for military, rather the need for special forces, antiterror groups, and gendarmeries will take their place.

[Kaos]

I think there was a point in time when we alot of people actually believed the war in Iraq wasn't about oil, or at least an economic motive. But when prominent right-wing commentators like Thomas Friedman accept the war is about oil and have no qualms about that then where does the rest of the right who believe the US are altruistic get off?

[enigma]

why Americans don't help Darfur or Eastern Congo- there, evil dictators are growing on trees and there is a real slaughter going on there at the very moment. The worst massacre after WW2.

The UK iirc wanted to send a brigaze of 5-10 000 men years ago when everything hit the fan.
UN said no and decided to impose sanctions ....


2enigma
Third world war will slaughter humanity. Our times are unqiue. We have deadly weapons. But human morality is the same- Anicent Romans can't destroy the world, but we can- and we are no better(or even worse) then Anicent Romans...
Romans practiced genocide ... we just practice it on a much larger scale