Power of Nukes

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

I am truly shocked! Never expected that....sry but that is crazy, really crazy!
I have to say: The americans were really ***holes in this point!

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/657/

[OliverMarshall]

Yea they wiped out a whole island and it's wldlife in the pacific somewhere, just for testing. A whole island with coral reefs, fish, birds and animals just wiped out.

[Jimmy]

What did you orginally expect of them? Im interested to know what destructive power you thought they had before watching the video.

They do look immensely cool though. Especially the underground detonation just half way through the video.


The americans were really ***holes in this point!
I dare not to think of what would have happened if the Americans didn't discover the power of nuclear fission first....

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

I think you all know Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Terrible! And i know a lot about the japanese government of these times! The japanese were crazy suicideguys but they would never use a nuke against a whole city with innocent ppls!

[DaveM]

?I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.?

I wonder did the guys in the goggles survive for long or did they all die of cancer?

[Thujalvi]

I dare not to think of what would have happened if the Americans didn't discover the power of nuclear fission first....

In theory germans could have had atomic bomb built by 1943.

[killertomato]

/removed quotes

I don't think it's right to put the blame on America.

Dr. Braun (who later, irronicly enough, was drafted to work for the U.S. gov.) too, was having is own agenda concerning this subject.

The clip looks mighty impressive. Against all odds I hope never to experience power of such nature.

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

Hmm? :confused:

ahh, got it now... but pls dont quote me and change my sentence

[killertomato]

Airforce,

Sorry that I qouted you and that I changed your sentences. That was just plain arrogant, and arrogance sucks balls.

But...

This:

I have to say: The americans were really ***holes in this point!

And this:

The japanese were crazy suicideguys but they would never use a nuke against a whole city with innocent ppls!

Are some seriously retarded statings tbh.
When you make statings like that, try to argument them.

[2ltben]

It's just so pathetic that the only way we can unleash the true power of Uranium and Hydrogen is to use it in a bomb.

[Core433]

I think you all know Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Terrible! And i know a lot about the japanese government of these times! The japanese were crazy suicideguys but they would never use a nuke against a whole city with innocent ppls!

The Japanese would never destroy a city with innocent peoples...right.

Here are things the Japanese people did to Chinese civilians:

Nanjing Massacre: killed 200,000 civilians, there are war stories on how Japanese infantry had competitions on who could behead the most civilians in 1 day, I believe the guy who won complained of arm injuries after beheading 100-200 or so in one day.

Buried civilians neck deep into the ground, then either cut a slit in their scalp and poured mercury down it (which gradually melts the skin away from the flesh on the face) or release attack dogs on them until the dogs ripped their head apart.

Committed freeze testing on civilians, freezing limbs or other body parts then chiseling it off with a hammer to practice amputation of freeze injuries. Tested the human limits of surviving in extreme cold and the treatment of severe cold burns on Chinese civilians. One account tells of two Chinese civilians clawing at each other and peeling each other's skin off under the extreme pain of the freezing test chambers. This was in case Japan had to invade Russia.

Taking POWs, including American, Korean, Chinese, and other East Asian nations, and dissecting them alive with no anesthetics. Just tied them to a table and started taking organs out.

Killed male civilians on sight, raped the women, then killed the women or sent them to be comfort women to Japanese soldiers.

Conducted chemical tests on civilians and POWs: any deadly gas, deadly biological agent, or potentially deadly medicine was first tested on civilians and POWs before sent to the front or given to the Japanese soldiers.

So I have no idea where you get the notion that the Japanese have any sense of humanity, or that they wouldn't destroy a city full of civilians. It seemed to be what they were best at. Your remarks really offended me, you might as say "Hitler wouldn't have killed any innocent Jews." And the Americans nuked Japan to save more lives than it destroyed.

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

You are right but they never used a nuke against a city.
And...if i have to choose between killed by japanese soldiers or killed by a nuke like that of Hiroshima (1.5 Kilometer from me).....i would choose *Killed by a japanese soldier*.

sry for my poor english..im in a hurry

[Core433]

You are right but they never used a nuke against a city.
And...if i have to choose between killed by japanese soldiers or killed by a nuke like that of Hiroshima (1.5 Kilometer from me).....i would choose *Killed by a japanese soldier*.

sry for my poor english..im in a hurry

You said they WOULD never use a nuke against a city. The only reason they never USED a nuke against a city is because they didn't have any. If they did there is no doubt in my mind they would use it. They're in the war to conquer land, maybe the entire East Asia or the world, and kill anyone who stands in their way, why would they not use nukes? Keep in mind they joined the evil side during the war, and I use the word evil in a nontrivial way. Germany was an aggressor, and killed innocent people like flies, hence they are evil. The allies were always on the good side, and I use good nontrivially as well, in that they responded to the evils of Germany, Italy, and Japan. So there is no justification in saying any dictatorship of the Axis side had ANY moral ground or conscience NOT to use a nuke or any means they had if they had the means, because that is exactly what they are, they are evil and indiscriminate in their courses of action. It is one thing to feel compassion for Japanese civilians who were devastated by the bomb, but totally another to say that the Japanese government would not kill civilians in the masses if given the power. The fact is that the Japanese DID kill civilians, and WOULD if they could.

Additionally, you would much, much rather be killed by a nuke than by a Japanese soldier. If you were a woman they'd rape you and mutilate you before they killed you. If you were a pregnant woman they'd stab your womb before they stabbed the rest of your body. Did I mention they'd rape you? If you were a man there's a good chance they'd torture you or test some horrible experiment on your body. I would take an instantaneous death by nuke any day. Even if from a further radius the wind caused by the nuke would peel off my skin, blind me, deaf me, and give me severe burns, that would most likely set me into shock. Much better than having mercury poured down your scalp or dissected alive, watching them remove your intestines and stomach and bladder one by one.

[Shnur]

are you serious? Dissected without anaesthetic, or instantly vaporized?
I'd take the vaporization, thanks.

EDIT: I forgot, there was a TV show on a while ago that was all about Australia's involvement in WW2. They had a segment on the Australians trying to determine the effect of a nuke in a dense jungle environment. Of course, they couldn't just get their hands on a nuke to blow up randomly in the forest, so they built a 15-story high tower out of bamboo and put 6,000 tons of TNT on it and set it off simulaneously. That was some pretty bitchin footage. It just flattened everything.

[SeinfeldRules]

I would take an instantaneous death by nuke any day.
Actually, I think Airforce is referring to the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, such as radiation sickness. That being said, being dissected alive doesn't sound like a very fun way to go.

But thats beside the point. Yes, the nuke was a horrible weapon, but the Japanese perpetrated evils far worse then what we did. (And the argument can be made that the dropping of the atomic bomb was a nessecity. The same can not be said for what the Japanese did.)

Ok, on to the movie. I watched a similar documentary of TV, called Trinity and Beyond, I believe. Really well done, lots of cool footage.

[killertomato]

Lol,

This thread certainly increased this forum's activity. :)

GG

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

Futaba Kitayama, then 33 years of age, was 1.7 kilometres from the centre of the explosion. Here are her memories :

"Someone shouted, "A parachute is coming down." I responded by turning in the direction she pointed. Just at that moment the sky I was facing flashed. I do not know how to describe that light. I wondered if a fire had been set in my eyes. I don?t remember which came first - the flash of light or the sound of an explosion that roared down to my belly. Anyhow, the next moment I was knocked down flat on the ground. Immediately things started falling down around my head and shoulders. I couldn?t see anything; it seemed pitch dark. I managed to crawl out of the debris.

Soon I noticed that the air smelled terrible. Then I was shocked by the feeling that the skin of my face had come off. Then, the hands and arms too. Starting from the elbow to my fingertips, all the skin of my right hand came off and hung down grotesquely. The skin of my left hand, all my five fingers, also came off. What happened to the sky that had been such a clear blue one only a moment ago ? It was now dark, like dusk. I ran like mad toward to bridge, jumping over the piles of debris.

What I saw under the bridge was shocking. Hundreds of people were squirming in the stream. I could not tell if they were men or women. They looked all alike. Their faces were swollen and grey, their hair was standing up. Holding their hands high, groaning people were rushing to the river. I felt the same urge because the pain was all over my body which had been exposed to a heat ray strong enough to burn my pants to pieces. I was about to jump into the river only to remember that I could not swim.

I went back up to the bridge. There, school girls, like sleep walkers, were wandering around in confusion. Upon crossing it, I looked back and found the Takeyacho-Hatchobori area suddenly had burst into flame. I had thought that the bomb had hit only the area where I was. When crossing the bridge, which I did not recognise, I found all its parapets of solid ferro-concrete had gone. The bridge looked terribly unsafe. Under the bridge were floating, like dead cats and dogs, many corpses barely covered by tattered clothes. In the shallow water near the bank, a women was lying face upward, her breasts torn away and blood spurting. A horrifying scene. How in the world could such a cruel thing happen ? I wondered if the Hell my grandmother had told me so much about in my childhood had fallen upon the Earth.

I found myself squatting on the centre of a parade ground. I must not have taken my more than two hours to get to the parade ground. The darkness of the sky lessened somewhat. Still the sun, as it was covered with a heavy cloud, was dim and gloomy. My burns starting paining me. It was a kind of pain different form an ordinary burn which might be unbearable. Mine was a dull pain that was coming somewhere far apart from my body. A yellow secretion came form my hands. I imagined that my face also must be in a dreadful shape. By my side many high school students were squirming in agony.

They were crying insanely "mother, mother". They were so severely burned and blood-stained that one could scarcely dare to look at them. I could do nothing for them but watch them die one by one, seeking their mothers in vain.

As far as I could see with my declining eyesight was all in flames. Steadily, my face became stiffer. I put my hands carefully on my cheeks and felt my face. It seemed to have swollen to twice its size. Now I could see less and less. Soon I would not be able to see at all. I kept walking. I saw on the street many victims being carried away by stretcher. Carts and trucks heavily loaded with corpses and wounded who looked like beasts, came and passed me. On both sides of the street, many people were wandering about like sleepwalkers."









Good night all........

[2ltben]

Why do people think nukes will ever be used again in combat? It's so glaringly obvious that they're never going to be used until capital ship space combat is the main theater of combat. We're still fighting wars in cities.

[Core433]

It's glaringly obvious that the U.S. will not initiate a nuclear war, but when all else fails nukes will still be used. If the U.S. got into a war with, say, China, it would most likely boil down to a nuclear holocaust eventually.

People thought it was glaringly obvious that there would never be another great war after World War I, they thought the world had learned a lesson. Then less 30 years later you get World War II.

This is why it is so important that countries that practice oppression and radical dictatorship can not be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons, and this is one of the pressing issues President Bush faces. Nations in which people are not properly educated tend to turn to extremist radicalism, and weapons of mass destructions in the hands of unscrupulous, undereducated people is where the real danger lies. The U.S. is an extremely benign superpower, one that many people and countries rely on in harsh times but criticize most any other times. People criticize the U.S. for its actions in the middle east, but what we are trying to do, whether this is the president's main intention or not, is contain radicalism so nuclear bombs WILL never be used again. This is why we are so concerned with North Korea, because nukes in the modern day that end up in the wrong hands are a terrible thing. We learn from history, we don't overlook.

Nobody in the U.S. thinks that bombing Japanese citizens was a good thing; it was a horrible thing. However, it is a contriversial issue because the Japanese government, not the people, quite frankly deserved it. They were a bloodthirsty and imperialistic regime that already claimed millions of lives in East Asia, many of which were non-combatant civilians. Compared to the toll of Japanese civilian deaths, the greater East Asian civilians suffered a tremendously overwhelming amount of casualties. The U.S. is certainly at some ethical fault for destroying so many civilian lives in Japan, but the conclusion that the U.S. is at total fault is fallacious in two ways. 1. The U.S. was looking out for the interest of saving human lives. They were protecting the lives of their own soldiers as well as the lives of civilians in other East Asian countries occupied or under attack by the Japanese. 2. Much of the blame is incorrectly placed on U.S. soldiers when the Japanese military and government were truly the ones at fault. What a government does is directly responsible toward the welfare of its country, and in case of the Japanese government, well, their barbaric actions were the ultimate cause of the dropping of the bombs.

The fact stands, however, that if the Japanese or the Germans were the first one to develop nuclear weapons - and they were developing them - much graver consequences would have risen.

As for the argument, I guess it comes down to: do you want to be dissected alive or have your skin and flesh melted off. Personally, I'd imagine I'd be really confused and disoriented if I were hit by an A-bomb, whereas watching myself be dissected I am fully conscious and traumatized as second by second ticks by and I'm slowly divided into more pieces.

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

I have to say: I lost 2 Familymembers in Nagasaki. So im not pro and not contra to this theme.
They were prisoners there....and yes..they were germans.

And the point of our disc.:

Never use an A-Bomb! NEVER! But we all know it, someone will use them...or a weapon who is stronger as an A-Bomb...!

Im not a pessi.....It is a matter of time...

[killertomato]

We are closer to a nukeattack then you might think. There's alot of 'politics' going on behind the back of the citizen.

Take, for instance, the Israeli Yom Kipur War. In this war Egypt and Syria attacked Israel in a surprise attack while the Israeli's were celebrating Yom Kipur (harvest feast). Israel was facing an overkill of fackin arabs urging to pillage Israeli property and raping Israeli women (as happened before).
As reaction, Israel did not only organize an offensive, they also sent out some jet hunters over Egypt and Syria. These jet hunters were equiped with ready-to-go nukes.

When all else would fail, someone would have given the sign to to drop those mothers on the capitals of both nations.
Wether or not agreeing with Israel, it makes clear that nuke-threats are actual and I do believe that every major power has something like this as some sort of 'last resort'.

Pressing the red button is only a fingermovement...

/edit
Oh, and since I see that you have posted another reply, Airforce I feel the need to edit my post:

Because

It's not wether you are a pro or a contra or wether you can come up with really sad stories that make me wanna cry. You see, I think one should just becareful with what one says. If you make a statemant, be sure to know how to back it up with arguments. Without consious intent, you can easily offend people with incorrect statements and I don't think that's what you want.

But seriously though, I think there's only one solution left...

http://nexusone.shackspace.com/nuke-the-whales.jpg

[Core433]

That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard, how will nuking the whales solve international nuclear disarmament issues on a political and socioeconomic scale?

[killertomato]

Lol,

That was a joke. :)
Thanks for providing me with one of the funniest sentences ever. :D

[DaveHill]

So no one has mentioned the French sinking Rainbow Warrior, the Greenpeace ship, as they were trying to prevent the French carrying out nuclear testing?
No one has mentioned that the Australian Prime Minister is mining this sacred land for Uranium, and not giving the original inhabitants a cent?
No one has mentioned that a Triton missile is a hell-ov-a-lot stronger than fat man, and certain US subs carry MULTIPLE Triton missiles?
No one has mentioned Chernobyl?

If you still haven't realised that the entire world is FUBAR, you're either 1) ignorant, or 2) living in a cave.

Testing nukes in the Australian desert, totally disregarding the original inhabitants?
Spending more money on warfare than education, health and welfare COMBINED?
Killing Minke Whales for "research"?
"Liberating" a country, to de-throne the "oppressive" leader, a "threat" to the world?
Shooting people and looting during a crisis?
Wiping out an entire race of people, to get their gold?
Burning people at a stake because of their skin colour?
A four-year waiting list for heart surgury?
A TV show contestant winning $1 million, FOR ANSWERING 14 QUESTIONS?


Welcome to Earth.
We are human beings.
Hear us roar.

[killertomato]

Good read. :)

[Hells Angel]

Dave I agree. This world is fucked and one way or another and the human race is going to die. Humans have to either change drastically or we're fucked.

As for the nukes dropped on Japan I agree the effects of the weapons (which we're not fully tested at the time) we're an extreme of the word overkill yet yes Japan are not the so called 'innocent' party in this. The Japanese people on the other hand are. If no nukes had been used that day who here honestly thinks that they would have not been used on a different country with even more dire effects or that we would have destroyed the world using them? We don?t know but the use of those weapons on that exact day showed man what it is like to wield such power and since then all countries have this fear of them, true the horde them and threaten to use them but not yet they haven?t backed up these threats.

As for the video I think it?s a good watch and seriously shows the power of such weapons. It should have the MGS theme overlaid though :p

Just my 2 cents :)

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

Yep...the war was fast over after the nuke attack...but japanese was already broken at this moment and some of you said it before...the nuke attack was for saving american soldiers BUT not for saving american ppls in NY or in Florida. Japan had no chance.....and the nuke attack finished them off. They shortened the wartime about 3months-1Year or in such a way.

[OliverMarshall]

Yea in the US, more than double the amount of money is spent on the provision for attacking other countries, also called "defence" budget, than is on all the parts of education combined. :eek:

Oh about the comfort women, in the 1930's 200,000 Korean women were forced to work as sex slaves for the Imperial Japanese Army.

Also in 1937 in the Rape of Nanking, 20,000 women between the ages of 10-70 were gang-raped by Japanese soldiers.Up to 200,000 men were executed.

Back to nuke power

The effects of a One-Megaton nuclear airburst

By distance from detonation:

12km: Many severly burned, all outdoors blinded, trees and building damaged.Winds reach 55kph/35mph.
8km:Most people severly burned, all outdoors blinded, trees blown down. Winds reach 150kph/95mph.
6.5km:Many dead from radiation, all outdoors blinded,most buildings damaged. Winds reach 260kph/160mph.
5km:Most people dead from burns,all outdoors blinded,all houses destroyed, all larger building damaged.Winds reach 470kph/290mph.
3km:All people killed, all buildings destroyed. Winds reach 760kph/470mph.

[Jimmy]

Every single British nuclear missile is currently onboard our four Nuclear Submarines, so in essence, they have the ability to cause the end of all human life from anywhere in the ocean.

However, I have my faith that humanity will not lead itself to destruction. Perhaps close to destruction in the far future, (Once colonization of other "worlds" has begun etc) but not in my lifetime. If the leaders of this world do cause this, I hope that atleast some form of God exists and wipes them out of time. They do not deserve to live, their souls do not deserve to have ever existed if that were to happen.

[Core433]

Yep...the war was fast over after the nuke attack...but japanese was already broken at this moment and some of you said it before...the nuke attack was for saving american soldiers BUT not for saving american ppls in NY or in Florida. Japan had no chance.....and the nuke attack finished them off. They shortened the wartime about 3months-1Year or in such a way.

Given that the predicted death toll if the Americans took Japan island by island was much, much, much, much, much, much bloodier and costly than dropping 2 nukes on 2 cities, what you're saying is the U.S. dropped the bomb on Japanese CIVILIANS to save lives of American SOLDIERS, and in doing so did something wrong.

Sooooo...1 Japanese civilian's life is worth more than 1 American soldier's life is what you're saying.

If you look at the opportunity cost of not dropping the two bombs, we are talking potentially every single soldier in the Japanese Army fighting to his death, taking out entire fleets of ships and innumerable men of the Allied forces with their kamikaze tactics, and at the same time killing civilians from occupied territories of the empire.

In plain words:

Drop 2 nukes: many Japanese civilians dead

Don't drop nukes: countless Allied forces dead, countless Japanese soldiers dead, and more East-Asian civilians and POWs tortured or killed, plus another year of fighting.

I don't see how it's a difficult decision, given that Allied soldiers are humans too, and their lives are worth just as much as Japanese civilians?

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

I dont know how many ppls america lost in the war against Japan....
but a city with 100 thousand civillians, no matter of what country, destroyed bye a nuke...thats just wrong in my opinion.The war was over but the use of atomic weapons is just wrong. And yes, i feel more for guys who were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki as all peoples who were killed on all beaches.

[killertomato]

FFS Airforce...

Someone please lock this fcuking thread before this goes out of hand...

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

Allright!
Sry to all.....